For the past 15 years the Burns Square area has been desperately pleading with the city to provide a public parking structure. We have had brief moments of excitement with possibilities such as the Verison lot and Dolphin lot but neither made it to closing with the city.
The Downtown Master Plan stated as a civic responsibility, parking is one of the three types of land uses that has to be purchased or reserved for the future of our Downtown. The Plan states the negative impact the current practice of requiring private developers to accommodate most, if not all parking on-site such as additional bulk and height of the structures and it reduces pedestrian life and civic vitality. It also states, Institutionalizing this one program will enhance the vitality of the Downtown and will control the creeping gigantism of recent developments. There are civic parking reservations for Burns Square noted in the Downtown Master Plan 2020.
The Downtown Parking Master Plan also identifies Burns Square. In fact tier 1 of the plan names three locations, Palm Avenue #1, State Street #2 and Burns Square #3. The city owns property on Palm Avenue and State Street and are actively working on those locations. The next priority in the Master Parking Plan is Burns Square yet the city still does not own any land in this area for a parking structure. The Burns Square area is also priority #5 and #6 out of 8 total parking location priorities in this report.
The Burns Square area has 20 acres of land with approximately 7 acres in different stages of development right now. There are only a few locations that will accommodate a parking structure therefore time is of essence. Burns Square needs the city to acquire something soon.
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35 comments:
We need to encourage the purchase of the Dolphin lot. This spot is central to the area and at today's prices it works financially.
If you want to develop business property, provide the requisite parking as a part of doing business. Why should the taxpayer build parking for your business?
I will attempt to answer your question which may not be the same for all the property owners because everyone's situation is somewhat different.
First, the City of Sarasota recognizes in the Master Plan 2020 and the Master Parking Plan what every city recognizes, that parking is a civic responsibility for the vitality of a city. With that said, there is a basic level of service the city provides such as on-street parking and property designated for that use like Palm Avenue lot and State Street lot which are and will be public parking in addition to the Whole Foods public parking lot. So, the first answer to your question is it is the cities responsibility and policy to provide parking structures. The city has created a Parking Master Plan after much public input and many meeting designating areas the city needs to provide more parking and listed them in order of priority. This type of improvement is one of the uses TIF was set up for.
On a personal note, I have owned for 20 years a historic structure that was constructed in the 1920's by Owen Burns and architect Baum without internal parking. It is considered one of the most important historic structures in all of downtown and I have an understanding that an overwhelming majority of people would like that structure to remain instead of being torn down for new development. The property currently has 7 commercial businesses on the ground floor that creates a great pedestrian experience. The upstairs has 12 units that provides affordable housing and space for students, restaurant workers, laborers and retired people but does not provide them with parking.
I guess I could develop the site with on-site parking and the structure would definitely be 10 stories with no ground floor retail because we would need the space for parking but in my mind, this would not be of benefit to the city or the neighborhood. The reality is all the residents, business owners, employees, deliveries, patrons and guests for this one building have to park around the neighborhood and in the surrounding residential neighborhoods like Laurel Park. This was not a huge problem when I first renovated the property because there were very few thriving businesses in the area in 1986 but with the growth of downtown there are increased parking problems for the area. This is a good thing that just needs addressing.
Now this same parking problem exists for many other historic and small structures in Burns Square for example all the structures on Burns Court and Lane such as Uva Rara, Ioptics, Beauty & the Bead, 516 Burns Lane Restaurant, Burns Court Cinema, El Habanero Restaurant and other buildings such as the Dolphin Building, Garden Building, Naylor House and Kimbrough & Koach to name a few. This is also true for the businesses along Main Street and Palm Avenue which is why the city recognized the needs in those areas as well.
All projects benefit from having internal parking and I think when one develops their site, parking is a priority and a lot of times it is at the expense of a better project for the city. Andres Duany spoke about this during his visits to Sarasota. He feels that parking should be in parking structures off the site of the developments so people have to walk around instead of being cocooned within their sole destination. This supports the cry for a walk-able city we all would like.
I hope this sheds some light on the subject.
Why did the city not buy the Dolphin location when they had it under contract? This was a much better location than the Verison lot because it was central. Any input?
Burns Court needs more parking. How can anyone question that? I always park on Oak Street when I come to the Women's Exchange and walk the area because I have learned to not spend time driving up and down Pineapple.
Dear 08 December, 2005 13:59:
I guess we need to ask the city exactly the reasons but it appeared to me the pressure became too great from many different directions involving many issues and not just the issue of buying a parking lot.
The property owners are still requesting the commission follow through with their Downtown Master Plan 2020 and Parking Master Plan which includes providing civic parking for Burns Square.
I am so thrilled that the Farmer's Market is staying in our area. I have not attended some of the meetings so can you state what we are doing to try to address the concerns of some of our fellow owners? The parking as we saw from our charrette is a priority for this area and the need for a public parking garage.
Ms. Kowal,
You seem to be an earnest woman when it comes to the interests of Burns Square. Like wise you seem to know Andres Duany's intentions about municipal parking garages to alleviate developer's requirements for parking in their buildings- making them much taller and out of scale. Can you speak to the proposed development at the Orange Dolphin being 10 stories tall and the intest of the City in public parking at this location. Doesn't this actually go against what you've spoken earlier on this Blog site? Do you endorse a 180' tall building on this site as an appropriate scale in this neighborhood?
Dear 15 December, 2005 08:47:
The property owners association has opened up conversations between two of our property owners in Burns Square who are in development stages with their properties and the city to use their land for public parking until they develop. The Orange Avenue lot will also have more parking available in the coming month since the construction crews from Kanaya will start parking on site.
All these locations are short term fixes to our parking needs. While this is great news we recognize the need for a civic parking structure for the Burns Square area and that is a goal we are actively pursuing since our charrette.
Our next property owners meeting is in January. Notices will be sent out on the date, location and time.
Hi Ms. Kowal,
That's all encouraging news, but I think you've avoided the issue and didn't answer the question. As you're aware the Orange Dolphin property, along with the adjacent property fronting on Pineapple is slated for a 10 story building. The City has had discussions with Mr. Christner about having the public parking garage located in this facility- making it even larger as a result. This runs completely counter to your former blog message. Do you as the president endorse a 180' tall building, also referred to as the Burns Square Tower, in this neighborhood?
Dear 15 December, 2005 09:43:
The property owners are working on a vision for the area that has specific goals we will encourage developers to consider when developing. Encourage and consider are the key words. As I have said before, out of the 20 acres in Burns Square, 7 acres have been in different stages of development before our visioning process. We hope to have a positive effect on the projects that are still in the planning stages.
The Orange Dolphin site is the #1 recommended site by our planner, Ramon Trias, for a civic parking structure because it is centrally located within the business area of Burns Square. Parking is our #1 priority for this area and as president of the association, I am actively pursing this goal.
I am not aware of a 10 story building on this site but I have heard a lot of conversations regarding that idea. Maybe you know more than I do about the current status of this site.
I do not like to endorse or oppose anything until I have had a chance to see it and understand it. I apologize for not providing a black and white answer but I do not feel this subject is black or white. Regardless of me liking it or not we already have several buildings that will be this height or taller depending on the zoning they submitted under.
15 December, 2005 11:32
My post you claimed avoided your question was not directed at your question, it was answering the question in the post before yours. I try to address my answers by posting the date and time of the blog I am referencing to avoid this type of confusion.
I think I did answer your questions fully but if you feel I did not, please let me know.
I will try to speak to your last blog. I do not know what "slated for a 10 story building" means. Does "slated" mean you know for a fact for this to be true. If so, I welcome you to share your knowledge.
I am sort of guessing at another statement or question you made, so if I am way off, again let me know. I think you took the example about my historic building and the discussion about the cities parking responsibilities and came up with the statement "making it even larger as a result. This runs completely counter to your former blog message." Every single property in Burns Square has different challenges so no, it does not run completely counter to my former blog.
I never heard of "Burns Square Tower" but that does not mean it does not exist.
What if the Orange Dolphin has been purchased by a developer and will not work with the city on a public parking partnership to provide a large amount of public spaces?
What locations are available in Burns Square to put a public parking facility?
The lot at the corner of Ringling & Pineapple has been vacant for so long. Can the city purchase this lot?
I also have noticed the block between Dolphin and Cross Streets have all been purchased by surrounding businesses to make parking for themselves. Any comments on this?
Dear 16 December, 2005 07:51:
I hope the Dolphin location is still available for the city but if not, we move on to find other solutions, one of which may be working with the new owner.
Dear 16 December, 2005 08:32:
The only possibility we know of is the Orange Dolphin lot. There are other locations that may work such as the Women's Exchange property or the County Building on Orange combined with the parking lot to the north but these properties are not for sale. There may be some possibilities on the north side of Dolphin as well but these are also not for sale.
The lot at the corner of Ringling and Pineapple is going to be developed by the owner. We are looking into doing a partnership with the city to use this location for temporary parking until it goes into development.
There are a lot of properties that have been bought for the sole purpose of creating surface parking for their customers. Many structures have come down over the past several years for this sole purpose. It is sort of sad that we are loosing frontage to surface parking lots. This is not the city I envision living in. I would rather have a parking lot the businesses could buy into and create good developments on the surface lots.
I would like to suggest posting a petition in each store that the customers can sign requesting a parking facility for the area. We need numbers because the real facts about needing parking do not seem to have much impact on the commission.
Good suggestion. While you're at it ask the shoppers if they believe 10 story buidings should be allowed in the neighborhood.
What is the status of conversations with Michael Saunders...she seemed to indicate a renewed interest in working with the city on public parking.
I am very concerned that the State-Lemon lot is being described by the developers of Pineapple Square as too small for a suitable parking garage. Yet...it is twice the size of the Orange Dolphin lot.
Either the Pineapple Square developers are wrong...and where does that put their project...or...if right...the Orange Dolphin lot should be off the table.
It would seem working out something with the county would be the best bet for everyone, and so much less intrusive for your charming neighborhood.
Dear 20 December, 2005 09:58:
I would like to respond to your request to poll customers on the 10 story question input (we will not be doing this suggestion).
While I appreciate input, I would like to request input that is constructive or helpful because questions posed out of context to this blog or to our customers will not be useful in the growth of this area. It will be up to each individual property owner on how to best develop their property and if someone likes it or not is objective. We have heard some would like the scale smaller than 10 stories so that input has been noted.
I also do not know of anyone at this time doing a ten + story building aside from Kanaya and possibly Michael Saunders both of which are working under their current zoning designation of CCBD allowing 18 stories.
Dear 20 December, 2005 10:35:
Michael Saunders has been open to discussions about public parking for the Burns Square neighborhood with the Property Owners Association and the City. The city currently has a lease for the Orange Avenue lot for public parking until the land goes into development. If she develops, she would sell the city approximately 75-85 public parking spaces to be included in her development.
The preliminary engineering studies have already been done on the Orange/Dolphin lot. A parking facility with approximately 325 spaces and retail frontage on Orange Avenue will work on this lot. I think the Pineapple Square project has issues that make the State Street lot not work for them but it certainly is not because the lot is too small to put hundreds of public parking spaces.
The County lot locations are wonderful for back up to a parking facility that is centrally located in Burns Square which is what was one of the studies that came out of our charrette. There are many factors in our growth that does not place the County lots as good locations for the area.
The area knows that there is nothing more intrusive or damaging to this area than the current lack of convenient parking for customers. So it is not the feeling of the property owners that a parking facility would be intrusive.
Ms. Kowal,
Can you speak to the fact that the City has yet to build just a municipal parking garage- which would be best for the Orange Dolphin property you have been talking about? I understand that Mr. Christner who owns the lot next door on Pineapple has been looking to develop his property inconcert with this Orange Dolphin property as well. I also understand that there has been a booklet of images of a 10 story building called "Burns Square Tower" that the City Manager has seen during meetings about this property. Surely you're not suggesting you know nothing about this especially if you have been in on discussions about parking on this property. Half the business owners in Burns Square have heard about it.
You know...I feel very bewildered. We are told that Sarasota is a big city and we have to accept that. OK, I do. Going up to ten stories in Burns Square is part of being a big city. OK, I accept that. But, in a big city, people are willing to walk from parking garages/lots. Therefore, the county lot should be acceptable to you. And it is by far the most reasonable and responsible solution. The Orange Dolphin site is the solution for a small city...we can't have it both ways.
The city has not built a garage because they do not own any land in Burns Square to do so. They first need to purchase the land and that is what we are requesting.
As I said before........ "I am not aware of a 10 story building on this site but I have heard a lot of conversations regarding that idea. Maybe you know more than I do about the current status of this site." And my statement previously, "I will try to speak to your last blog. I do not know what "slated for a 10 story building" means. Does "slated" mean you know for a fact for this to be true. If so, I welcome you to share your knowledge." So, I did not say I know nothing about this subject, just that it had been conversations - nothing came of it as far as I know. I think you are going back several months in the news media files and not referencing anything current.
As far as I know the property is available to purchase, there is not a development in the works on this site at this time by any developer or David Christner.
You need to ask Mr. McNees about his meetings because I do not work at city hall. His blog is srqcm.blogspot.com.
If I did not answer your questions fully, please let me know.
Dear 20 December, 2005 15:06:
Thank you for your opinion and that is not the way our planner and the property owners see things after close study of the area, future planning and listened to the requests of customers and businesses.
Ms. Kowal,
The point I was trying to make is that the City has yet to build a free standing municipal parking garage on ANY City owned land because they want developers to do it for them- usually associated with a much bigger development and those ubiquitous TIF funds- which was why I mentioned the 10 story development scenario. I doubt very seriously that the City would commit to building a low height municipal parking garage (that would be more in scale with the neighborhood) on the Orange Dolphin location without trying to negotiate terms with a developer that will obviously need the extra height to recoup the loss on the required parking side. It would be a breath of fresh air coming from City Hall to see them get off there rear ends and get busy building parking on their own instead of waiting to negotiate terms on some really convoluted plans floating around out there.....
I am not happy to hear that Ms. Saunders will be providing only 75-85 public parking spaces in her development. However she managed to manipulate the city into stepping aside for her selfish money making needs. She promised to do a public parking partnership and I am sure the city would not have agreed to step aside for a mere 75-85 spaces. She has shown herself to be only interested in her development and not the others affected by her selfish greed to have to have the lot. Why does she not sell the property back to the city inclusive of all her costs at this point so they area can do with the lot what it had intended in the first place, put a public parking garage. She should not make a profit from this!!! She already has enough, how much more does a woman need!
I do not personally mind walking several blocks because I do not dress up for work, I wear sneakers and I am in my 20's.
The county lots are too far from the theatre, the restaurants and shops. I will make the assumption that the people blogging in favor or lots that are not central are not the elderly or our customers. The county lots are also not in Burns Square and we need parking in our area, period. All the surrounding lots will be great in addition to having a convenient lot.
And what is with the person stating a 350 lot parking garage with retail frontage on Orange Avenue is small town? First, this area is a wedge between residential neighborhoods so in a way it is a small part of our downtown. We are not within Whole Foods parking, State Street parking, Palm Avenue parking, on street angled parking, the City parking lots, the Library, Herald Tribune parking, Hollywood 20 parking.
We need good parking in a good central location!!
Dear 20 December, 2005 16:59:
Just because the city has yet to build a public parking facility does not mean it will never happen. Many people support public/private partnerships on parking facility sites because it has potential to bring other uses into the project. I would think they would entertain options if they were to purchase the Orange Dolphin lot or any lot in the neighborhood but that does not mean they will enter into an agreement. I guess this is a bridge we cross when and if they purchase land.
I think the city has been very clear on the what, why and how uses of the TIF funds and the many improvements they have done so far. I would be willing to help get you information so you can understand the process more, just email me at burnssqowners@aol.com and ask.
What is the difference between the Burns Square Property Owners Association and the Burns Square Association? Why does the area have two associations?
Just asking and yes, you all need more parking and a parking garage would be great!
I support the city building a parking garage for your area because you really have a parking problem in that area. Is the Orange Dolphin building a brand new building because it seems a shame to take down a brand new building? If the new building was not there then I do agree that the location would best support the businesses and customers.
Dear 21 December, 2005 13:21 and 22 December, 2005 13:19:
The main difference between the two associations is that one is only property owners and the other also includes tenants, such as retailers, restaurants and other commercial businesses. We work on some similar and sometimes different issues based on the interests of our members. I am happy to say that the two associations are building a good working relationship together.
The Orange Dolphin building was an existing building that was renovated. So, no, it is not a new building.
I signed today a petition the property owners and merchants have started to encourage the city to purchase a parking garage for this area. I think this is a good idea and I wish you all the luck so this charming area can continue. I love being able to shop and go to the cinema but the parking makes that hard. Good luck.
JUST A REMINDER that the Friday Night Walk for Burns Square is this Friday Night, the 6th of January! All shops will be open until 9PM. Hope you all can make it.
Do you have any comment on the huge amount the Pineapple Square group is asking from the city to put some public parking in their project. I have read about the cost of each parking space and the amount of City owned land that will go into this deal. It appears that each space will no only be very expensive, well over $40,000. per space or the paper said around $50,000. per space. I would hope the city does not do this and builds a parking structure on the State Street lot because this appears a more useful location for the public. If they put the parking in the structure for the development it will be more difficult and serve mostly their tenants, restaurants and condos. Also, if it does happen, would any of the parking benefit the Burns Square area? I am a little confused if the Orange Dolphin lot would fit around 300 spaces and the Pineapple Square project is proposing the same amount of public spaces exchanging a lot that is twice the size of the Orange Dolphin lot how does that make sense? It would seem your area's proposal to purchase the build on the Orange Dolphin would be a very good decision for the City. Any comments?
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